Update October 2010: It looks like Leaf have stopped messing with the phones. I have a Vodacom Desire and it doesn’t have any Leaf stink on it. Maybe someone at Leaf read this post?
My mobile phone has a weird bug. The wifi works perfectly and then I leave the house and it never switches over to 3G unless I reboot the phone.
That’s a pretty annoying bug, but what makes it even more annoying is that the problem was actually fixed 8 months ago with the release of Android 1.6. There are also a whole bunch of cool updates as part of that 1.6 release, but still, I’m stuck with version 1.5.
So why not upgrade? Well, the problem lies with a company called Leaf. Leaf are the HTC importers for South Africa. Sadly, if all Leaf did was import the phones we’d be fine, but the over-reaching company gets involved in the process of managing the software on the phones and this is a job they fail at miserably.
When I phoned Leaf to ask when there will be an update made available they said that they were busy “testing” and that I should wait 3 to 4 weeks… This sounds reasonable but unfortunately I can’t believe them. You see, Leaf have a long history of completely stuffing up Android phones in South Africa. This dates back to many many months ago when Leaf first launched the HTC Magic (my phone).
Regular Android phones have an application called “Market” which contains thousands of applications (much like the Apple App Store). You can find all kinds of things like Google Sky Map (hold it up to the sky and it shows you which stars you’re looking at) to apps that make farting sounds. Great stuff, generally.
But when Leaf launched the Magic it came bundled with an app called “Open Market” and no regular “Market”. Open Market had a few (ie, like 30) really really bad applications on it… I think the top rated app was something with wallpapers of dogs. When pressed for an explanation Leaf said that Google didn’t give them permission to use the Market app. After chatting to some people from Google who work on Android it sounds like this “permission” excuse was made up. The more likely explanation is that Leaf were hoping to start selling applications via their Open Market app. Yes, Open Market is developed (used losely) by Leaf. Once they realised that nobody cares about them they buckled and said they were working on an update that included Market… they suggested we wait 3 to 4 weeks while they tested the new version. This was in May.
Eventually, late in August, 5 months after promising something in 3 to 4 weeks, Leaf quietly released an update on their website. The phone was finally what I’d paid for… a fully fledged Android phone… but only for a few weeks as Android released version 1.6 a few days later.
One of the big attractions of Android, and certainly why I bought my phone, is the Open Source and constantly evolving platform… The idea that your phone’s operating system isn’t frozen in time for 2 years and can get updates (automatically if you want)…Unfortunately Leaf are just plain incompetent and don’t seem to care that they’re selling a device that isn’t quite what the customer paid for… Our phones are stuck in time… and, when pushed for an answer we’re told again “3 to 4 weeks”.
When I eventually lost my cool and tracked down Peter, Leaf’s marketing person, he said I should send him an email and that he would get me some answers in a few days… He then got his PR agency to phone me and promise that they would get me some answers the next day… Perhaps ironically it has been 3 weeks and I’m yet to get anything out of them.
So here are the questions I asked Peter in that email 3 weeks ago.
- When will the HTC Magic get a 1.6 ROM
- Why has it taken so long? (8 months and counting)
- What is Leaf doing to correct the problems with the process and how are they going to convince consumers that buying via Leaf is a good idea?
Until Leaf can answer these questions I would advise against buying any HTC products in South Africa.You’re just not getting what you paid for.
The end.
ps. I heard that Leaf are bringing in two new HTC phones, the Legend and Desire… Both look like sweet phones, it’s a pity that if Leaf will probably ruin it for anyone who buys the phone by never releasing any updates. Cash in hand baby, cash in hand.
arbitraryuser 
I am going for the Desire HD and let’s see what happens. Will get it this week and I will install Google Nav (#43) as soon as I receive the phone.
Wow… glad found this post. I was just looking at getting a Hero but will definitely reconsider.
Two questions:
Is it possible to bypass the restrictions by getting your own version of 1.6? And would that solve the app store problem?
Hi reconsidering
The phone’s operating system is locked by Leaf so that they can control it. (Not something that they do well obviously).
I’m not sure which version of the OS is being shipped with the Hero, but I think it is 1.6… sadly again, in the rest of the world the Hero’s ship with the vastly superior Android version 2.
Simply put, if you buy an HTC phone in SA, it’ll come with an old version of the OS and you probably won’t get an upgrade.
I believe that all the HTC Android phones in SA are now shipping with Android Market.
The other problem with the lack of updates is that a lot of the more advanced applications (Like Google’s Navigation app) require later versions of the operating system. So while Americans are getting turn by turn, voice prompted navigation on their Heros, you’ll be stuck without it.
j.
Thanks for the feedback
I think turn by turn navigation is also disabled by Google on a per-country basis, due to licensing agreements they’ve made. At least that’s how I understood the speaker at a recent talk I attended.
This doesn’t solve the Leaf problem, but for a great free turn by turn nav app for Android (& iPhone & Symbian & even windows mobile) check out waze.com. Their data is crowd-sourced and it’s early days for ZA but their coverage seems to be growing steadily.
Meybe Microsoft gives them some kind of incentive for screwing around with it’s non-MS clients.
There is always the option of breaking free from the stock ROM and installing one developed at XDA (http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=493&order=desc). Requires a fair amount of geekness to accomplish and there are some risks involved, but there are clear instructions on the site. You probably will lose support from Leaf, but if the company is that sucky, does it matter? Benefits are that you can pick and choose a ROM that has what you want. Heck, if there isn’t an ideal ROM you can even cook one yourself if you have the chops.
Hi Oobly
Yeah, obviously that’s an option but I don’t want to have to hack my phone and void my warranty. If leaf shipped the phones with a friendly SPL it would far easier, instead they purposely lock it down to keep control.
I agree. HTC make fantastic phones, but Leaf stuff it up. I buy from the us now. That way I get all the updates and the phones are cheaper. And HTC have world wide support. Just got a Nexus One. Best decision ever.
Just want to say I completely agree with this and Leaf is being ridiculous.
Nice rant, 100% warranted. I bought my Magic in June 2009 and realised pretty soon that it was not what I expected. I should have know we’d be getting 2nd rate goods when the advert for the phone states that Android is a browser.
Anyway, the local market was crappy. Leaf support is crappy. I was chuffed when the Leaf ‘upgrade’ came out and applied it. And was happy for a bit. Then versions moved on and Leaf stood still, the only option was to void my warranty and load a custom ROM. But trying that I found that Leaf had locked the phone’s SPL down in the ‘upgrade’ – I won’t forgive them for that underhand move the bastards. I have chatted to the help desk over the months and all I get is ‘3 to 4 weeks, we are waiting for google SA’. Hey maybe google doesn’t care much about Africa but blaming google is a cop out, you cant speak to google to ever confirm anyway.
So eventually I risked bricking the phone and waded through the gumph on xta-developers. It works, now I have a fast and sexy SenseUI ROM and it is like a new phone, it is possible, go for it even quite easy, you just need to find the right info. Google this “Flashing ROM on HTC Magic Perfected SPL” to find it.
In future I will not buy a phone from Leaf. I will buy direct from Google and get someone to bring it out from the USA. It is much cheaper and you dont get locked into an virtually unsupported ROM.
I found this while trying to figure out how to get the latest version of andoid on my magic. I am now bleaker than ever! I also just spoke to Leaf’s idiot call centre people and they gave me the 3-4 week story. HTC MAKE SUCH AWESOME PHONES AND THEN THESE LEAF PUNKS FUCK IT UP FOR US. I hope they lose the HTC contract.
Hi
What pisses me off the most about this situation with Leaf is that they just don’t seem to care at all. I spoke to the guys at Vodacom in the waterfront and the guy’s exact words were “Leaf messed up the phones and when we complain they tell us to tell the customer that they should have done more research before they bought the phone”.
What kind of an attitude is that? Nobody knows who Leaf is until they realise that their phone doesn’t work the way they were told it was going to.
I’m sooooooooooo glad i saw this, was just about to get the Hero on a new contract and were so excited about the new HTC Desire… planned to get that on my Dads upgrade in 4 months time!
Thank You!
Nice article, good to know.
I’m also due for an upgrade this month – was thinking of the hero, but I’ll likely get an iphone instead now.
I agree, I am so pissed off with leaf. I am going to launch a Free to use SA android website which is a forum and news site. Basically it will be for us South Africans because we are so disconnected from the rest of the world we need our own site anyway, and its always nicer to get help closer to home. Anyway, once I get it up, I’ll try create a petition list for the upgrade for the Magic and Hero, etc … also, I will create a Petition list to go to HTC Worldwide directly and complain about leaf (I’m pretty sure HTC doesn’t want their name tarnished by some ignorant company). I have got the number to contact of the Tehnical Manager at LEAF, and I will follow up.
To those guys that say they were gonna get the phone but then saw this article … if you can, get the HTC Android phone overseas … but don’t let this article make you change to a different brand given out locally, my Magic is still awesome, even with 1.5 … and way better then any Nokia / Samsung / iPhone / Blackberry I’ve ever played on.
In order this is the phone you should get:
HTC Android from Overseas > HTC Android Locally > Any other phone
Im not sure that we will ever see any updates for the magic, I got this response from leaf today….
Good Day Jason,
Thank you for contacting Leaf Support. We have received your email regarding firmware for the HTC Magic.
The latest available firmware version for the HTC Magic is version 1.5. There has been no confirmation for any later firmware versions for the African region in the near future.
To verify your device firmware version: Menu > Settings > About Phone.
Should you have any queries please feel free to contact us on 0861 44 5323.
Regards,
Leaf Technical Support
The Desire is available on preorder from Expansys for R6000 (http://www.expansys.co.za/a.aspx?i=196001&atype=Handsfree)
If youre going to void the warranty with a custom ROM anyway, and LEAF is so utterly pathetic – just get it from the UK.
I ordered the Desire from Expansys (15-20 days delivery time though).
They handle the warranty and the Desire comes with a 1 year warranty.
Thanks for sharing information about LEAF. I am trying to buy HTC Desire and was thinking to wait till LEAF Makes them available. Now I changed my mind. I will buy from UK Directly which is cheap also.
I have the HD2 and i have spent some time getting to know LEAF.
They have been superb when it comes to support and customer service.
Yes I did face an extra month waiting for the 1.66 ROM but that was related to network testing by the cellular providers.
I spend much time on XDA and use LEAF locally when needed. It is very comforting having them around when needed.
Very interesting! The HTC Desire is my choice when I upgrade next month, so this info is indeed helpful.
A question though, the phones that Expansys sell, are they supplied by Leaf or from an international supplier?
@headoak, LEAF are the South African importers. The expansys phones come directly from the UK IIRC.
Just to mention, I sent in my HD2 to LEAF South Africa yesterday May 13 2010, for a defective screen, who completed the repair the same day!!!
LEAF really are superb in South Africa and a credit to HTC.
Thank you Wayne Parkinson of LEAF SA who took care of the details (as always), and their dedicated Support/Repair Team who did the rest.
I have followed forums with the same screen issue as I had and everyone on those forums experienced delays in getting the repair done.
Beat that HTC Worldwide.
i took a shot at it and sent a bit of a whinge off to htc (taiwan) last night. sent the link to this blog post as well. a little while later i got this reply:
Dear wernich： Thank you for contacting HTC Corporation. With regards to your enquiry, we have helped to forward to the relate department and they will help on your issue as soon as possible. Thank you. We are sorry for any inconvenience to you.
i wonder if that will do anything…
It looks like comment #20 and #23 “Wayne” is a Leaf employee if I didn’t know better. If the whole COUNTRY is saying the sky is blue WAYNE and you are the only voice saying its purple, it means there is something off about you. And yes its that transparent !!!!!
Take that LEAPH !!!
Comment #16 is fairly conclusive… What further proof do we need? The value proposition of Android is predicated on the aims of the OHA (Open Handset Alliance). Closing or locking any Android device is counter-intuitive at best and treacherous in reality.
I stumbled across this page when doing my final due deligence before going for the HTC Desire. I’m so glad for this ‘intelligence report’!
The guys who are buying from Expansys, what proof have you that they are importing their phones?
Perhaps we can have another page/site where we rate experience and vendors from which we’ve purchased?
Well.. the only reason I didn’t get my Desire today was because MTN didn’t have stock (of course I had to stand in line for 2hours before they told me this). Now that I’ve read this I’m reconsidering my approach, especially since android 2.2 is out and leaf have no plans to update to it.
I can probably get my hands on Motorolla Droid (or whatever it is that they call it here). I’m pretty sure that Leaf don’t supply the droids locally.
I sent an e-mail to HTC global support to get their view, as the Leaf call centre is utterly useless. I got a call back within 30 minutes. They are aware of the fact that a ROM update is not available for South Africa. They weren’t exactly sure why, but suggested the problem could lie with the local distrubutor (Leaf) or with Google. She has escalated the query.
Regarding the Market (app store) access, they are certainly not aware (and very amazed) that we have access only to free apps, and no paid-for apps. They even called back an hour later to double-check that we cannot buy apps on the Market in South Africa.
They will investigate – I will post their responce when I get it.
Very impressed by frankness of their call centre, and the super-quick reponse by both e-mail and phone.
Perhaps more SA Android users should contact HTC directly, so that they can force Leaf to get their act together?
Contact them here – http://www.htc.com/europe/CS_Mail.aspx
Hey Jonathan,
Thanks for the write-up, I was just about to get me a HTC Desire and this is quite a wake-up call.
Have you had any more feedback from either Leaf or HTC?
I find this bordering on criminal and will certainly get into contact with HTC as you suggested. I cannot see myself not getting the Desire, even if I have to flash it myself.
Will make a bit of noise at Leaf as well, the more the merrier.
Thanks again for the write-up, you probably saved me a hell of a lot of frustration.
Hi all,
Just thought I should post this little bit. After much debate I bought myself a Desire through Vodacom (ie. via Leaf). The only reason I did that was because of people like unrevoked.com who make rooting and updating the firmware on your HTC Android phone incredibly easy and safe.
Please help me get this straight:
If I get a Desire via Vodacom now:
1. Will it have the newest version of Android?
2. Will it have full access to both the paid and unpaid apps in the Android market?
Thanks!
Hi Aubug
1. It will probably ship with 2.1 update 1, but then shortly after you turn it on it will download the OTA (over the air) update to 2.2
2. No, currently you can not get paid apps from the Market unless you a) root your phone b) install Market Enabler.
I had rooted my phone using unrevoked and then I lost root when I applied the OTA update to Froyo, which was dumb. I’d should have just kept root and upgraded to a rooted froyo using clockworkmod.
j.
Thanks for the advice – the more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards the Desire and not the iPhone 4.
It seems like I will be able to get most apps from places like androlib anyway.
Would you be able to root the phone again now that you have upgraded – is there ever a situation where you are locked in and no longer able to root the phone?
I presume that when you root it, you also get rid of HTC’s sense – is that a good or a bad thing?
Possibly throwing cats amongst pigeons, but when enquiring with Leaf whether they could supply HTC Touch2, they stated that they no longer supply HTC phones in South Africa. Looking at this site, this looks to be a good thing!
Hi Arbitraryuser
I’m considering getting the HTC Desire via Vodacom and find this discussion great. But please can you re-write #32 in non-geek English for us challenged people? Many thanks.
Thanks for the useful information. I’m so sick and tired of the bad service that is being dished up in this country. I’m taking your advise and steering clear of HTC in this country until I hear otherwise.
Hi…..
Yeah , I ordered the Desire 3 months ago from Vodacom . Been waiting ever since and no joy . Contacted Leaf a few times and they give me bullshit delivery dates week after painful week . I emailed them…no response . They are pathetic . HTC rocks …Leaf SUX .
Notes to anyone reading this post: If, for whatever reason, you don’t get the 2.2 (Froyo) OTA update, you can download it and apply it manually without needing to root or anything like that. Also, as of 3.21, UnrEVOked can now root HTC Desire / EVO 4G / Droid Incredible / etc. phones running 2.2.
Wow, i cant believe that there was so much shit going on behind the scenes. I went into a Nashua Mobile Store and the sales guy was so excited about the HTC Desire, and the new Desire HD thats coming out this month, but never mentioned anything like this. Now im in a spot of bother. What do i do, do i get the iPhone4, as that was my seccond choice, or do you think HTC and or LEAF will have their shit together come Christmass time….
Thank god i found this, i waned to get an HTC Android phone but now i dont think i will. Nothing sux like not getting what you pay for… I think ill get a motorola droid/milestone…which other android phone can you guys recommend, i want to be able to turn my phone to a wifi hotspot so i can connect my outside home…and do we get the full android market experience here in S.A.
Wow, now I’m in a bother…. I am waiting for the new Desire HD, but now I’m not so sure that I would like it when it gets here…. Maby I should go for a Samsung Galaxy or an Iphone 4…..
Why must 1 company make such a great phone so undesirable….
What to do now????
I’m sooooo glad to have checked this. After sassing out the Desire on Stuff and mobiles-uk I was planning to get myself that brilliant phone tomorrow. Now won’t. This should force HTC’s hand.
Installed turn by turn Google Nav on my desire. Works like a dream !
Here it is :
http://www.multiupload.com/Z1JHL9IRMO
Download it on your PC
Move it over to your Android phone programs folder (1.6 to 2.2)
Using a file manager from the market run the programme.
Done !
I also regret buying HTC HD2. Although this is not a software problem, I thought I should share with you my experiances. I broke my phone srceen in August, since the cell phone through MTN SP Technical Services, for some communication breakdown, they returned it back in September 2010 with the screen not fixed. I signed the quote and sent the phone back on the 7th October 2010, to date the phone is still with them. This is really very long for me. If I could geve back the phone it would be my pleasure.
I have an HTC Desire (from Vodacom) which I love. Firstly I have been running on 2.1 since I received the phone in May 2010 after being promised by Leaf that 2.2 will be made available to me I must just be patient. I check on a weekly basis and still nothing… Now my Desire has started this rebooting problem out of the blue. I am so nervous to send it in as it takes months to come back to me (previous experiences) and the problem rarely solved. Any suggestions out there?
i have been a nokia fun for long and i thought of trying HTC this year but i think with this information i need to stick around to see if they change, thanks
Just commenting to say that I got my HTC Desire HD via Chatz 2 days ago, and I couldn’t be happier. Really dunno what all the bad vibes here are about.
The HD ships with Android 2.2, and so far my biggest issue is that I can’t solve level 29 on Angry Birds 😦
Guys,
I am glad I found this post. I have to say that I was not very impressed with Leaf’s support myself.
I would like to get myself a new HTC because I like their phones, but there doesn’t seem to be a phone with a qwerty keyboard anymore, or am I wrong. I had the S710 (would have liked to get the S730 or S740). Is there anyone that knows where I can find an S730 or S740 for a good price secondhand?
If someone can suggest a new andriod phone with a qwerty keyboard that will run MXit, MIG33 and 2go very well and mail me, I’d appreciate it greatly. spazzeroony at gmail dot com.
Thanks Guys,
I’m with Wogan on this one.
Getting my Desire just after Christmas, been handling a friends one, and it’s an absolute pleasure.
i am due for a upgrade in January. I was going to get the HTC DESIRE HD – , soooo NOT happening!! May Leaf fall hard on their ass! I hope they lose the HTC contract too* I will be getting the Blackberry Torch now**